Big mess

It was Hannity and DeSantis v. Newsom in messy Fox debate

The Fox News host often grilled Newsom but couldn’t control the candidates.

By CHRISTOPHER CADELAGO and KIMBERLY LEONARD

The debate between Ron DeSantis and Gavin Newsom was a big mess. There was even some poop. Fox News moderator Sean Hannity didn’t help clean things up.

DeSantis, the Florida Republican and 2024 hopeful, was looking for a campaign spark heading into the fourth GOP primary debate on Wednesday in Alabama to reverse the downward direction of his presidential bid. The governor’s team savored the chance to have the night to themselves on primetime opposite a liberal Democrat from California.

Newsom’s aim wasn’t so much to present his vision for America — he’s not running for president — as to tag DeSantis as an uncaring bully who moved to weaken gun laws after a mass shooting. Newsom also said DeSantis had flip-flopped on key issues like immigration and China in an effort to explain why the Republican governor is trailing so far behind Donald Trump.

“He’s in a death spiral,” Newsom said.

The California governor pleased the White House with frequent defenses of President Joe Biden, “Bidenomics,” and by correcting DeSantis’ pronunciation of Kamala Harris.

Why did they agree to a Fox News-sponsored “debate” hosted by Hannity? Both participants are starved for national attention, and their respective suns have been blocked out by the aging leaders of their parties, 81-year-old Biden and Trump, 77. The extreme hunger for conflict from the next generation of politicians was on display Thursday night between DeSantis, 45, and Newsom, 56.

The 2024 Republican debates have been so devoid of spectacle, and, frankly, so lame, that the unlikely trio of DeSantis, Newsom and Hannity rushed to make their own entertainment. The 90-minute showdown, with the red state and blue state governors frequently talking over each other, included a surprise prop from DeSantis: a color-coded map of San Francisco covered in brown splotches representing human feces.

The Hannity Factor

Benefiting from the one-on-one square off, DeSantis got his shots in on Newsom — with Hannity’s help. The host took a layup from DeSantis to suggest that school districts in California were teaching students about how to masturbate. Hannity also teed up a question on education and LGBTQ+ rights under the banner of “parental rights.” He premised a question about Biden with his own opinion that the president is experiencing “cognitive decline.”

Hannity repeatedly pressed Newsom over whether he supported abortion at any point in a pregnancy but didn’t similarly lean on DeSantis about how his signing a six-week abortion ban into law in Florida was out of step with public opinion.

There was a clear incentive for Hannity himself to prove his relevance and staying power at Fox after the departure of ratings-king Tucker Carlson. Hannity’s ability to host two high profile governors — and convince Newsom to appear on Fox — was an undeniable win. Within the first two minutes of the broadcast, he mentioned being the longest tenured cable TV host.

But Hannity struggled to corral the leading governors on the debate stage, repeatedly begging them not to make him a “hall monitor.” They mostly ignored his pleas as they interrupted each other and appeared to enjoy doing so.

The obsequiousness probably undermined DeSantis’ overall case — giving viewers the sense that the Florida governor couldn’t fend for himself and needed an extra hand from the host. “Hannity basically tried to be a human life preserver for a drowning Ron DeSantis,” Newsom adviser Sean Clegg said of the host’s approach.

DeSantis in his comfort zone

The format with Newsom gave DeSantis an opening that he hasn’t had during the last three GOP presidential debates. At Thursday’s debate, DeSantis was able to mock his opponent without competing for attention from several rivals onstage.

He seemed to have more control over the conversation, elaborating about specific policies he backed as governor of Florida — which could help him attract the attention of big donors. He questioned Biden’s ability to run for a second term given his advanced age and theorized about why Newsom had asked for the exchange in the first place.

“Why won’t you just admit that you’re running?” DeSantis asked.

DeSantis played the debate pretty straight. He repeated several times that Newsom was being “slick” and “slippery,” casually dismissed entire answers as lies and said Californians were leaving the state “in droves” — an effective attack particularly with the right. “He went on a binge of putting out a lot of left-wing platitudes,” DeSantis said of Newsom at one point.

Republican presidential candidate, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis participates in the first debate of the GOP primary season hosted by FOX News at the Fiserv Forum on Aug. 23, 2023 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

DeSantis stumbled with more casual viewers as his answers veered into a digital-heavy direction, including dropping bombs on Newsom over his French Laundry dinner with no explanation and trying to tie him to the district attorney of Los Angeles, who is not a household name.

But if voters didn’t like DeSantis before the made-for-TV clash with Newsom, it’s hard to see how he changed any minds Thursday night.

Newsom fought on culture

Newsom was far more emotive than DeSantis when delivering certain responses, especially about the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas in Parkland, Fla., that claimed the lives of 17 people in 2018. He put DeSantis on the spot over loosening gun laws during his term, eliciting an odd response from the Florida governor who delved into a complaint about retail theft in California. It was the flip side of having the floor with only a Democrat — no Republican would have leveled similar charges in the GOP debates.

Newsom also expressed dismay about DeSantis’ policies regarding LGBTQ+ rights — one of his most effective exchanges of the night. It came after DeSantis held up a page from the book “Gender Queer” that depicted oral sex — a book Desantis claimed is in California public schools but has been removed from some Florida districts. In response, Newsom criticized Florida for removing books from school libraries that contain themes about gender identity and sexual orientation.

“I don’t like the way you demean the LGBTQ community,” Newsom said. “I don’t like how you humiliate people you disagree with. I find this primarily offensive.”

Hannity’s assistance for DeSantis impacted on Newsom but didn’t rattle him. He also accused DeSantis of pursuing culture-war fights because he was trying to compete with Trump to win the 2024 GOP nomination for president. He frequently drew attention to DeSantis’ failure to catch on in the race and asked him at one point when he was going to drop out to allow rival Republican Nikki Haley a chance to catch Trump. The exchanges helped Newsom bring the California versus Florida debate back to 2024 so he could undermine DeSantis’ electability argument.

“You are trolling folks and trying to play political games so you can out-Trump Trump,” Newsom said. “How is that going for you, Ron? You are down 41 points in your own home state.”