President-king

Pelosi: Unless we impeach Trump, ‘say hello to a president-king’

A conversation with the speaker of the House on impeachment, leadership and 2020.

By ZACK STANTON

As the House of Representatives prepares for a full vote on two articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump, Speaker Nancy Pelosi sees high stakes at every turn — politically, constitutionally, even for the basic rule of law.

“If we allow one president — any president, no matter who she or he may be — to go down this path, we are saying goodbye to the republic and hello to a president-king,” Pelosi said in a Dec. 10 interview.

At last week’s Women Rule summit in Washington, Pelosi spoke with POLITICO’s Anna Palmer about the impeachment process, her decades-long effort to get more women elected to Congress and why it’s not enough for women to simply have a seat at the table.

What follows is a transcript of their conversation, edited for length and readability. For more, listen to the interview on the newest episode of Women Rule.

On Impeachment

Anna Palmer, POLITICO: One of the biggest criticisms of the process has been the speed at which the House Democrats are moving.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi: [With incredulity] Speed?

Palmer: Seriously, though — seriously.

Pelosi: It’s been going on for 22 months, OK? Two and a half years, actually.

Palmer: There has been some criticism, though, about whether or not you should move forward before the end of the year, or wait for the courts. Why do you think now is the time to move?

Pelosi: Well, I think we’re not moving with speed. This — was it two and a half years ago that they initiated the Mueller investigation? It is not about speed; it’s about urgency.

One of the charges against the president of the United States is that he was violating his oath of office by asking a foreign government to intervene in our election, undermining the integrity of our elections. If we did not hold him accountable, he would continue to undermine our election. Nothing less is at stake than the central point of our democracy: a free and fair election, not disrupted by foreign powers.

We do this with great sadness, prayerfully, somberly. If we allow one president — any president, no matter who she or he may be — to go down this path, we are saying goodbye to the republic and hello to a president-king.

Palmer: Let’s talk about the politics, because nothing happens in a vacuum here. Republicans believe their path to majority in the House is through the 31 districts that the House Democrats won, that President Trump [also] won. Impeachment is not popular there. Does that worry you? Are you worried that impeachment could cost you the majority?

Pelosi: No. If we believe that our Constitution is being violated, that our very democracy is at stake — that, as Franklin told us, [we have] “a republic, if you can keep it” — and this very person is jeopardizing that, what are we there for? Just to continue to have a job? We take an oath to protect and defend; if we did not do that, we would be delinquent in our duty. So, this isn’t about elections; it’s about the Constitution.

Palmer: And you’re not worried, though, that this could flip the House?

Pelosi: No, I’m not worried. That has nothing to do with it.

On Trump

Palmer: Your relationship with President Trump is one of the most talked-about in Washington. It’s had its ups and downs. There’s been storming out of meetings. There was the photo of him slamming his hands on the desk. Do you think part of that is because the president has a hard time dealing with women in power?

Pelosi: I am not in any position to do a psychoanalysis of the president.

Palmer: But you’re on the couch. How would you describe your relationship with the president?

Pelosi: Professional. I’m talking about my treatment of him — he’s the president of the United States. I respect that. I try to be cooperative when I can, but I also have to honor the Constitution of the United States when I must. And so that has been a patch on the relationship, you might say.

Like that day when I was saying all roads lead to Putin. He didn’t like that. But I mean, really: Disrupting our election; giving away everything and trying not to honor what Congress did in a bipartisan way to give military assistance to Ukraine, which was fighting with the Russians, who had invaded their eastern border after taking Crimea as its own.

By now more than 13,000 Ukrainians have died at the hands of the Russians. They needed the military aid. The president withheld it until he got caught, and then again, more people dying. Who benefited? Russia.

Disrupting our elections and just saying, “I don’t know who did it.” The Russians.

Who benefited when the president made the statement he made with Turkey, that the Russians could have a stronger foothold in the Middle East, which was their goal? They benefited.

The list goes on and on. All roads lead to Putin. That is worrisome to me. So, when you talk about Ukraine, you’re really talking, in many ways, about Russia.

Palmer: I sat down with the president at the end of last year for an interview. At the time he spoke really glowingly, in respectful terms, when it came to you. This morning, in fact, Lara Trump, his daughter-in-law, was here in her capacity as a campaign official, and when asked what woman Democratic lawmaker does she have the most respect for, she said you. Did this surprise you?

Pelosi: Nothing surprises me. “Surprise” is not a word in my vocabulary. It’s over there with “hate.”

On Women in Congress

Palmer: You have a record number of women in the Democratic Caucus as chairmen of committees — in fact, seven full committees are chaired by women. You’ve sort of led this revolution not to just have women elected to office. Does it make a difference to have them in positions of power?

Pelosi: Yeah. Here’s the thing: It’s a decision. We made a decision a long time ago that we had to change the demographics of the Congress of the United States.

When I came to Congress, out of 435 people, there were 12 Democratic women and 11 Republican women. We made a decision that every election, we were going to add to our numbers. [In 2018,] for the first time, over 100 — 106 women were elected in the last election, 91 of them Democrats, because we made a decision. [Republicans] went from 11 to 15 and we went from 12 to 91 because we made a decision. Our caucus is 60 percent women, people of color, LGBTQ. It’s very exciting.

When the “Watergate babies” came to Washington, it was transformative. It was a big class similar to this transformative big class. In the first year, not one of those freshmen was chair of a subcommittee, had a gavel. In this class, 18 freshmen have a gavel. Ten of them are women, eight of them are men. It is really important to preside, to decide what you’re going to take up and who you’re going to recognize. It’s important for women to not only have a seat at the table; we want them to have a seat at the head of the table.

Palmer: We’ve talked over the years about the ageism that women face. You’ve said you feel like you’ve faced a double standard compared to your male counterparts when people are asking about your retirement all the time. Do you think that’s changing? Do you think that that is unfair, that a lot of women feel like that in the broader workplace?

Pelosi: I don’t care. I mean, that’s their problem, right? Age is a relative thing, but it is interesting that we have most of our candidates for presidents are in their 70s. Whatever his name is over in the Senate side — Mitch McConnell [is 77], you know? And then they come to me. But you know what? I really don’t care.

The thing about me and part of my success is I really don’t care. That is to say, I know my purpose. I know why I’m there. I know what I’m there to do. And if that’s the caliber of questions that somebody wants to drum up [about me], that’s really up to them, but it’s not my problem.

On 2020

Palmer: You mentioned the age of the presidential field.

Pelosi: But that’s not the whole field.

Palmer: No.

Pelosi: In fact, there’s some in the field who will bring that down considerably.

Palmer: That’s true. But it’s an unsettled field right now. Are you concerned about the state of the Democratic primary for 2020 and the ability to beat Donald Trump?

Pelosi: No. I think all of our candidates are great. I think any one of them would be a better president than what we have now, but I’m not using that as a high threshold.

I do think that there’s a thirst in our country for this candidate to emerge and show his or her vision for America, for America’s future. Knowledge of whatever subject is the priority, whether it’s climate, or whether it’s education, or whether it’s the economy, whatever — just how to show strategic thinking on how to get something done that’s a subject that you’re most knowledgeable about. And again, the most important of all, that person showing vision, knowledge and strategic thinking and the rest needs to connect with the American people.

Authenticity is everything — and that is your connection with the American people, that you authentically identify with their hopes and dreams and aspirations. We want people to know that we think in terms of having a seat at their kitchen table, and the concerns that they talk about there, what keeps them up at night — they’re our priorities.

Palmer: Last question: do you keep the House in 2020?

Pelosi: Oh, definitely, yes. When 2016 happened, people said to me, “Can you win the House in 2018?” And I said, “I’ll tell you in November of 2017.” And now, in 2019, one year before the election, I can tell you: We will win the House.

We don’t take anything for granted. We own the ground, will not yield one grain of sand in our mobilization. We message in a way that is progressive and mainstream. And we have the money to get it done.

What I say to anybody who might want to run [as a Republican] against one of our candidates, is: “Your president is under 50 percent. Our candidates are formidable; they’ve done their official duties. We’re going to own the ground.” And if it’s a [Republican] incumbent, I say to them: “You’re going to have a race. It’s going to cost you. You’re going to have to explain your votes to suburban America. You’ve never really had to defend your votes here; you’re going to now. Your president is under 50 percent. You may want to spend more time with your family.”